Locked System (why and how to unlock it?)

GivEnergy Products GivEnergy All In One
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In the T&C under 2.4.2 Intelligent Octopus Flux the key clauses are:

2.4.2.8(d) – Exclusive rights to enter contracts for Demand Response Services with my Low Carbon Technology.

2.4.2.8(e) – Exclusive right to control my Low Carbon Technology to deliver on those services.

2.4.2.8(f) – Prohibition on joining third party Demand Response schemes.

2.4.2.9–2.4.2.10 – They will “use reasonable efforts” to manage charging/discharging, but accept no liability for compatibility, preference alignment, wear, scheduling failure, or electrical faults.

The way I see it: if Octopus accepts no responsibility for damage or operational issues, then I must take responsibility myself. That means retaining at least some ability to protect my equipment when needed.

At this stage, I don’t have the patience to keep going in circles on this. My stance remains unchanged: I will stay compliant with the T&Cs as I and the Consumer Law interprets them, but if I ever need to challenge Octopus or GivEnergy, I will.

Frankly, this has gone beyond a forum discussion, what’s needed is a clear position from Octopus, GivEnergy, or a solicitor. I may reach out to Black Belt Barrister to see if he’s willing to analyse the legal position on this.

As with so many things in the UK right now, if we don’t challenge ambiguous or overreaching terms, companies will continue to push boundaries, and I’m not in the habit of giving up my rights without question.

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I’d be interested in reading Black Belt Barrister’s analysis if you do reach out to him.

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I will stay compliant with the T&Cs as I and the Consumer Law interprets them

You should do what you think is right. But let’s not kid ourselves, there are no contract lawyers in this thread and this stands in contrast to the legal team at octopus who would have created / vetted these terms.

If you want to challenge, you absolutely should. But it’s worth remembering what these tarrifs are intended to do when issuing that challenge, and that you can walk away and sign up for a different tariff at any time. Contract law generally precludes having your cake and eating it.

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…… or quietly carry on with what you are doing, in the hope that Octopus do not remove the local control loophole that allows you to do it :wink:.

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…… or quietly carry on with what you are doing, in the hope that Octopus do not remove the local control loophole that allows you to do it :wink:.

I’m not entirely convinced that publicly sharing technical instructions for bypassing these controls—especially on the manufacturer’s website—can be reasonably characterised as doing it “quietly”. :thinking:

1 Like
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Exactly my point.

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I’ve scheduled 4 Battery Calibrations, since joining IOF (October 2023). None of them have looked the same (in terms of charge/discharge profile). I’ve seen calibration periods lasting 3 hours, all the way up to 13 hours. (Have always tried to set them around midnight, which is typically the beginning of the quietest period for IOF.) I probably don’t need to say it, but throughout the calibrations, IOF is sending it’s usual “Enable Eco Mode”, and “Battery Reserve % Limit” messages (all of which, as usual, fail).
I guess, strictly speaking, running a Battery Calibration is in breach of the IOF Ts&Cs - I’m breaching the ‘exclusivity’ clause. However, I’ve never seen Octopus remotely run a Calibration on my system…

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Deleted all my posts on control, no point sharing if the endgame is “comply or get cut off.”

I’ve learned the rules: if you challenge the system, they don’t argue, they take away what you’ve already paid for. Steam taught me that years ago. £300 lost, lesson learned.

So here I am, happily giving up my rights like everyone else. Feels good to be part of the herd. :ewe:

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holdendyej Octopus won’t schedule battery calibrations because they simply don’t care.

The other option is to let them hammer the battery until it becomes faulty, then hope GivEnergy will give you a new one. But here’s the real question, will GivEnergy find a clause to refuse the warranty because we’ve given “exclusive” access to Octopus?

This gets into legal territory: if GivEnergy allows us to be locked out and unable to perform any battery health changes or exercises, and Octopus clearly states they take no responsibility if the battery is damaged, then whose responsibility is it?

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We’ve been a bit quiet as we were waiting for Octopus to come back to us. Fingers crossed they have sorted the issue we were experiencing so we should be good now. Thanks to everyone who helped.

1 Like
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@ drrajmistry Let us know how you get on. My friend with a Tesla Powerwall is running into similar issues, odd charge/discharge cycles and rates that make no sense. The kicker? She’s still waiting for her Feed-in Tariff approval, which could take weeks, yet Octopus has already taken control of her system and is forcing grid charging and 9.0 kW discharges.

When she queried it, the response she got was basically: “So what do you want me to do about it?”, followed by a warning that if she removed their API access it could delay her move onto OIF even further. That feels pretty cheeky: they can take control instantly, but the customer is left waiting weeks for the tariff approval they’re meant to benefit from.

I tried setting up Home Assistant for her to regain local oversight, but Tesla integration is more locked down. It looks like either the installer changed the local access password, or Tesla Customer Support need to enable it.

For now she’s switched to Off-Grid mode. Her system can power the house indefinitely, and at least it stops Octopus (or the grid) effectively getting free electricity while she’s waiting on DNO approval. Thankfully Tesla doesn’t block users from their own systems, and Off-Grid also prevents OIF from pushing through schedules or overrides that aren’t in the customer’s interest.

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I had a similar problem when I chose Octoplus’s recommendation of using OF after GivEnergy battery install. I lost total control of my inverter & even the installer couldn’t help!
I changed tariff to Cosy Octopus but it made no difference. Octopus Energy said they had removed my inverter from their system & I should have regained control of my inverter but the ‘lock out’ remained!
Then in Account Settings> Manage Account Security> Manage givenergy.cloud API Tokens> Manage API Tokens I found an Octopus API-api entry; there was an option to ‘revoke’ which I chose & I immediately regained control of my inverter!
Hope this helps.

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@dominator99 I will have to see how easy it will be for me to get my system unlocked when I change to Cosy. From what I understand, once locked it remains locked, regardless if you remove the API, Octopus must send a command to your GivEnergy Battery to unlock it, or get GivEnergy to remove the lock once you confirm you are no longer on OIF, but from what I have seen regarding GE Customer Support, this could take weeks or longer.

My friend is still waiting to start exporting, it’s been taking ages.

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I just wanted to provide an update, and give credit where credit is due, in this case GivEnergy.

I am still unhappy with the locking practice, and will have to see how easy and fast it will be to unlock it once I move to Cosy due to Heat Pump, but after looking at my friend’s Tesla PW3, I am very happy with my GivEnergy.

The grass is NOT always greener.

It looks like the Tesla pretty much removed any kind of decent access from it’s PW3, and dumbed down the interface considerably. From what I have seen, there is no way to do planned schedules, as PW3 think it knows best, and uses their algorithm based on Selected Energy Tariff, to charge the battery at the best times, which works really poorly with the Octopus Free Electricity Sessions. In addition, Tesla has now removed/disabled local API access from their PW3 (may need a customer request to enable it, trying to find that out), the only other way is to go via their Fleet, which from what I understand is a paid for subscription service.

Still not happy about the Octopus practices, but would eat my socks for saying anything bad about GivEnergy at this point considering the experience with Tesla. Obviously I don’t know what other manufacturers are like except these two. Maybe there are other batteries out there that have amazing access and control.

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SigEnergy seems to be getting a lot of traction and sounds interesting in terms of control options.

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Has anyone identified a way out of this? I have disconnected my inverter from Octopus Intelligent Flux with a view to changing tariff for the winter. However my inverter remains locked. Octopus CS say it may be unlocked in a few days but they didn’t seem to know?

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I’m in the same position as you. I changed tariffs over the phone with Octopus last week moving from Intelligent Octopus Flux to standard Octopus Flux. As part of that they removed my GivEnergy “device” from the app and switched my tariffs but still the lock remains. Numerous calls to Octopus and GivEnergy have gotten me nowhere. I’ve revoked the API, still locked, physically switched the entire system off and on again, still locked!

So frustrating!!

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I have confirmation from GivEnergy, that if you write to them, telling them you are no longer on the tariff, and wish to unlock the device. They will do it.

Make sure to e-mail: support@givenergy.co.uk with something like this:

Subject: Request for Manual Unlock and Revocation of API Control Lock

I confirm the following:

· I am the lawful owner of the GivEnergy system listed below.

· I wish to reinstate full user control of my system.

· I have switched to the Octopus XXXX tariff on DATE, and I am no longer on the Octopus Intelligent Flux tariff.

· I am requesting removal of the API-enforced lock, which is currently preventing me from accessing and controlling my system.

System Details:

· Account Email: XXXX

· Inverter Serial Number: CH000XXX00

· Comms Serial Number (if required): WJ0000XX00

Hope it helps. I have switched over to another tariff too, still locked, just giving them a few days to see what happens.

If mine doesn’t get released, I will write to both GivEnergy and Octopus on hello@octopus.energy requesting immediate action or 24h before some kind of reimbursement is expected.

A lot of users here were very keen to point out the terms and conditions of OIF, so right now, as far as I am aware, they are the ones in breach of our contract and illegally accessing and blocking my system.

There is noting in the terms and conditions that state they have the right to access and be the only party controlling my system once changing from OIF.

Based on our experience so far, it seems to be recommended to request the unlock first, then change tariffs.

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Thanks for the reply DREI. I have emailed them within the last few minutes. Let’s hope that they turn it around quickly, however, I’m not sure if it is just me but I’m not sure how I’d check right now as there seem to be some issues with me accessing my inverter in the Cloud website.

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It does look like they had some access issues, but the API still worked as Octopus was able to control it and send instructions.

Seems to be back to being locked:

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I believe the mobile app should still allow you to change settings, at least for now.